Transcript :

Neville Lyons	Well, good afternoon, Martin.  We’re recording this interview as part of the LEO Computer Society oral history project.  The audio version and the transcript will be launched at a central archive and made available for researcher and members of the public.  So, let’s just start with a little background which you can  answer.  Can you tell us where you’re born and the occupation of your father, mother, any early memories?  
Martin Albu	I was born in United States and that was just because my parents happened to be there at the time. And my father was an engineer and then became a member of parliament.
NL	That’s fine.  Can you tell us where you were educated, your schools, any further education you’ve had? 
MA	I went to Bedales School.  
MA	It’s an independent school.
NL	And did you have any further education, any university?
MA	I went to the LSE.
NL	So then, can you tell us what subjects interested you or fired your imagination?
MA	I’m in sociology and I was interested in that and in politics.  And  in technology. 
NL	Regarding your career, did you have any advice on what career you ought to be following when you were at school or university?
MA	Not at all.
NL	So,can we say around about what year you started actually doing a job? 
NL	Yes.  And what-
MA	I started work at 1952 when I left university.
NL	Can you say what sort of work you were involved in at that time?
MA	My first jobs were in an industry in the north of England, I had an odd career on the first few years really.  I’m making a career in an industry that with an arts degree, it was a crazy idea. So, after a few years I actually went and became an engineering apprentice at Metropolitan-Vickers it then was.    
NL	Yeah. 
MA	And then I worked as a production engineer and then as a personnel manager in a company in London.  But that didn’t work out too well.  And I was looking around, wondering what to do next.inaudible for some people to work on computer projects, and this I knew nothing about but it sounds interesting so I applied for it.    
NL	And what company was this?
MA	It was called the Metropolitan Boroughs  committee, it was a consortium of London local authorities who got together to start a computer project, and they were in touch with LEO who advise them on what to do and they ran a selection process that’s a group of people, some of us were programmers and some of us were systems analyst.
NL	 What were you?
MA	A systems analyst.
MA	I knew nothing about computers but that was what I’m interested in.  I always had a little pocket calculator or something, you know, around but basically, I knew nothing about these computers.  But our first job was to put the local authority payrolls on computer, a disastrous decision really. As I had been a personnel manager, I knew something about payrolls so then I can use a little bit of my skills. 
NL	 So, at this point  were you actually working on LEO?
MA	No,  we had a team of I think  8  or 10 of us,  and half of them were programmers and half was system analyst, and the programmers were in touch with LEO.  
NL	They did have a LEO machine at the time?
MA	No.  they were using the company programme.  It was still LEO II in those days, we haven’t even got LEO III yet.   
MA	No.  I’m saying we as an organisation used LEO II, we sent our data to LEO II and it was processed and came back. 
NL	Ah, so you were using the LEO II as a sort of bureau?
MA	Yes.
NL	In the same way that quite a number of other companies were, the bureau was    in the White Fields building? 
MA	Okay, yes.
MA	My connections with this, yes.  My colleague’s programme was they were more in touch with LEO. 
NL	So how long were you doing that for them, Martin?
MA	Was there about six years or a bit more.
MA	I think it’s January ‘58 was on the actually…
NL	then can you tell me what happened after that?
MA	I joined the civil service.
MA	I discussed with the general administrator, it happened that…  it’s just at a point when the labour government in 1964 came in and set up a ministry of technology.
NL	Yes.
MA	And all to my surprise, I was actually put in the ministry of technology.  So actually, it was then they put me in the computer division so I was actually able to use a little bit of computer knowledge and civil service work.   
NL	 But there was nowhere in this sort of part of your career that you were actually involved in LEO anymore?  
MA	No,  
NL	I mean, your LEO experience was in your sort of previous job, which was not directly with LEO but using LEO as the bureau? 
MA	 yes.
NL	 So, having sort of got involved in computers, did you have any further computer experience in your career? 
MA	Well, as time went on, I use computers more and more as they became part of my life.
NL	I’m sure.
MA	I always had some piece of technology, I had a pocket calculator. 
NL	Yeah. 
MA	 But I’ve always  been interested in computers ever since all this time,  that PCs sort of became available for ordinary people.
NL	So, having joined the civil service, did you remain with them or did you have any other sort of career experience after the civil service?
MA	I stayed with the civil service .
NL	Yeah.
MA	And I was initially in the computer division.  I mean, my high point of my career was when  the then minister,  Frank Cousins, got up in the House of Commons to announce the government’s media policy.  And in fact, I wrote part of his speech.  And my contribution particularly was  to impress upon my civil service colleagues, that computers were about commercial workers with the scientific work because all my experience in the civil service, their computers were scientific tools. 
NL	Yes.  
MA	And actually, it’s where I got the wording and put in the speech as suggested that they were actually commercial, the future was  commercial computing.  
NL	So, when did you finally retire?
NL	From the civil service I meant.
MA	 1996.
NL	 So, were you then with the civil service right through up that time ?
MA	I was in civil service for 30 odd years, yes.
NL	So, having then retired, did you find in your retirements your background in technology useful to anything, your activities in your retirement or have been doing?
MA	yes.  I’m in other things, I joined an organisation that was finding voluntary work for people in managerial status.  In fact, this organisation used computers to do its work and I was able to contribute to the development of their computer work and particularly my expertise, I was—that was in explaining computer to a layman.  They had a very competent chap who… we programmed the computer system for them and did a very good job but he couldn’t explain easily what was—to the user as what they had to do and I was able to write the user instruction as it were because I was doing what he was doing and I was able to interpret.  
NL	So, would you say,  during your retirement, has that been your main preoccupation or have you had other activities to keep you busy in your retirement?
MA	I also worked for—or volunteered with an organisation that help people with disabilities to use computers, that I went into like people’s homes and help them set up a computer .  But I did this for a few years, but I mean I haven’t done any of this for the last 10 years.
NL	Are you married, you have children?  
MA	 I am a widower.  But I got children  and grandchildren.
NL	 And any of them following in dad’s footsteps as far as technology is concerned?
MA	All the young kids nowadays know more  than I do. 
MA	With like phones and computers and things.
MA	Well, that’s right.  There are just two points and they may or may not be relevant, but the first one was when I was first recruited in this new team that was set up by the Metropolitan Boroughs, we were sent off to LEO to have aptitude test,  the standard test that they run to programmers, and I did quite well on that initially then the second half of it I didn’t do so well, and then I was interviewed by… was it Kavanaugh, was he the leading man there?
MA	Yeah, he was running this and he took me on the side table, well we were thinking of offering you a job but   we’re not going to.  And I was shocked because I hadn’t really had the job, I’ve been offered the job by the boroughs, they just sent me there as an additional thing, and at first it was wrong of LEO to try and pinch me as it were from them, if they would have offered me a job.  And they were just that, yeah, acting as helpers to their clients, I thought that was very bad, and they got a bad impression of LEO from there at some sense.  And the other thing is that later on I went there, I was well-established and our project was running, we set up a computer users group, all the clan companies, people who are clans of LEO that as we were, got together and had a sort of little group together to try and sort of announce our problems with LEO as such they were.  And I became a sort of,  secretary of this group for a brief period because that’s just before I left and joined the civil service.
NL	 thank you very much, Martin.   At the end of this interview, there’s a recording message which I have to say.  This interview with Martin Albu has been recorded by the LEO Computer Society as part of an oral history project to document the earliest use of electronic computers in business applications.  Any opinions expressed of those of the interviewee [inaudible 00:21:01] society, copyrights and any other intellectual property rights of this interview in recorded form and any transcription remains with the LEO Computer Society.  

Provenance :
Recording made by the LEO Computers Society as part of their ongoing oral history project.

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